This is a collection of short in-character fiction pieces about Awakened Industries, a group of capsuleers and their crews living in the enigmatic and dangerous regions of Wormhole Space in EVE Online. None of the protagonists are actual characters or corporations in-game. All similarities with persons fictional or real are possibly coincidental and only sometimes intentional. - Emergent Patroller

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: The stories on this blog contain mature themes involving sexuality and violence and are not suitable for minors or sensitive people.

20 Nov 2012

OOC Entry 60 - Indignation

I stumbled upon this post by Evehermit and I have to say the post and it's comments are dealing with an issue that disturbs me a lot.

It is of course a problem that does not only exist in the EVE player community, it exists on the whole of the internet, but the fact that EVE is a game where a certain ruthlessness and callousness is part of the gaming experience does not help.

The problem I see is the terrible poverty and devolution of written interaction online.

As Evehermit has pointed out, and as Blastradius expanded on, there is a high number of really low-brow comments that contribute nothing to any discussion but just serve the purpose of someone 'leaving their tag' or - to put it another way - pissing at a lamppost like a dog stupidly trying to mark a territory in vain, oblivious that dozens of other dogs will pass by the same lamppost and do exactly the same thing.

That does not mean people should not disagree with someone's statement, point of view or attitude. I sure have my pet-peeves and I have written about them extensively.

In fact I am doing it right here and now. 

What angers me is the lack of discourse and the refusal to make an argument. Disagreement is often reduced to memes comprising even less than a oneliner. I mean, How often do you see HTFU, Tits or GTFO, Fuck Goons, -A- is shit etc. etc. ?

Even on a site like TheMittani which prides itself on supposedly better discourse than the much loathed EveNews24 a recent article by James315 got not one but several "-A- is shit" reactions which promptly got upvoted heavily.

Congratulations, you have finally completely replaced EVENews24. Down to the last aspect of stupidity.

Sorry, I guess that's not quite true because on EN24 the most quoted meme would be "Fuck Goons". ;P

I wonder whether some people are even capable of realizing that reproducing simplistic memes like that makes you come across as neither smart nor funny, and upvoting the poster of something like that makes you even less so.

Just as my two predecessors on this subject have pointed out, it is not a matter of writing the perfect counterargument. In many posts I write, my logic is flawed and my conjectures are incorrect. I have big issues with the rants of James315, and I sometimes can only shake my head at the polemics of Poetic Stanziel.

What sets them apart from the inane meme regurgitators is that they actually take the time to make an argument and write it out in a manner that is captivating to read. Even if you facepalm all the way through.

Some time ago I wrote a piece about how much I dislike the current superpowers of EVE. Someone linked that to reddit and there was a lot of useless commentary on it. One person, however, took the time to take my whole piece apart paragraph by paragraph. Also several people offered constructive (if scathing) criticism on my own blog.

It was painful and in quite a few ways I was put into my place, but I highly appreciated that.

In a follow up comment on his original post, Evehermit laments the indignation that speaks from many comments. I do not necessarily feel the same way.

If there is a polemic piece put forward by someone, then it is all fair to respond in kind. It's another thing if someone like Mabrick writes about how difficult he finds it to come to terms with PVP and someone responds with "HTFU Carebear".

I have no problem with a discussion that is conducted without pulling punches. What I would like to see, though, is an exchange of blows that is more like a well coreographed kung-fu movie and less like a drunken barfight.

I myself have no formal education beyond a highschool equivalent and I do not come from a sophisticated high-society background. English is not even my first language. So it's not about being educated and sophisticated, but it's all about attitude.

If there were less meme-throwing, trolling and other forms of non-contributions there could be a real discussion that benefits the writer, the reader and the people who post reactions.

Isn't the EVE community always claiming to be so much more mature than other gaming communities?

Well maybe it's time to put more effort into showing that we actually are.


  1. Hey, I was giving you kudos using you as the good example and all that :)

  2. Maturity... EvE is a game for mature people. I say this because it is a long term game, with few immediate gratification points, if any really. Everything worthwhile needs skilling, an investment in time and 'patience' that the immature do not have. That said...

    Maturity however, shamefully for the human race, does not preclude asinine or 'childish' behavior... especially when said behavior is emotionally based. And the root of all such negative attacking memes is an emotional predisposition.

    This was considered a good thing in WWI with the "ebil Hun" and in WWII with the "ebil Jap" and such, it is the basis of propaganda... get em mad and intellect goes out the window. When someone, mature enough to climb the Learning Cliff, and see the worth in that time and investment, uses such memes... they are simply expressing emotion... not logic or reason.

    I don't like it, but we are emotional creature we humans... not, thank the gods, Vulcans... so I ignore it and read on... =]

    1. In a fit of passion, I could say many things, none of which would have less significance simply because they were stated with emotion. In fact, I am perplexed at the thought of someone carrying on a conversation with me sans any kind of gesticulation, emphasis, or gesture. I find it, on the contrary, quite inhuman. But behind that, I find no interest, no bit of curiosity, towards that which lacks passion. A game? Well, many things could be considered so. Do we make fools of ourselves? Undoubtedly. I have often, with unnatural frequency. Perhaps it takes a man that has seen the precipice of Nothingness, to appreciate even the common - and yes, even the mundane. In many ways I agree with you, but in this I cannot.